cfforum

http://www.bicycling.com/tourdefrance/a ... -1,00.html

When will it end? Now we have the explanation as to why Vino had such a resurrection on the ITT - this is so frustrating...

From the bicycling.com forum section - a guy whose handle is "macfrugal"

"Maybe Vino misunderstood when commentators talked about needing "new blood" in the sport of cycling."

..........I always credit my sources.....pretty funny

This quote from David Millar upon hearing that Vino tested positive and that Astana had withdrawn from the tour:

[i]"Jesus Christ - there you go, that's my quote," he blurted out. "What timing, huh? This is just fucking great." [/i]

I guess you need to ride hard for 4th and 5th place from now, those positions could eventually get you onto the podium when one or two of the riders ahead test positive. Wonder how that payout works in Vegas...you're guy won, we paid you, then two months later the guy tests positive; what then?

Well I guess that's not much different than the NBA these days.

I am a new member on here, in case you are wondering who I am .

You know, I told my wife, as Vino passed each time check on the ITT that it was very strange that he blew the time trial field away by over 2.5 minutes, after crashing, having 10 stitches in either knee, and being down over 28 minutes on the field just prior to the ITT. But, then, to support my claim even further, he comes back in a very difficult Pyrenees stage the next day, and wins the stage for God sakes with another 2.5 min gap? A time trial effort that resulted in that big of a gap, would not allow him to recover that quickly and go charging up the mountain the next day. So, thus, both efforts have now become very suspect.

I thought it was a bit fishy. Sure he lost blood from the crash, and I would think you might be entitled to a blood transfusion of some sort if you lost a lot of blood, so that might vindicate him. But, Jesus, this is ridiculous. This sport is going to be screwed. He was already sent home, and the entire Festina team has dropped out. The Tour is like 50% of the annual budget of an internationl team, so Festina has to be PISSED. Needless to say, this one is going to be hard to overcome, particularly after Landis last year, and the fact that we didn't start with a #1 this year in the tour for the first time in the history of the Tour.

Furthermore, it makes you wonder about Lance. He had a horrible day in the mountains a couple of times, particularly in his latest win. And then BAM, the next day, he goes firing up the mountain on all cylinders and secures himself a massive time gap that he kept to the end.

I have been riding/racing for over 25 years, and I have had bad days, followed by good days, and vice versa. But, when you are at the International level, which makes domestic Cat 1's even seem lethargic, it is almost impossible to see large gaps between riders at that level, without enhancements, crashes, etc. Sure, you have riders that are better climbers, and better sprinters, but to see dramatic shifts in performance from one day to the next, RELATIVE to riders of similar world class ability, does nothing but raise eyebrows, and it should. A simple study of basic medicine shows you that there are athletes that are far better than others. But, their peformance is consistently better, it does madically enhance 50% from one day to the next, without some physiological explanation.

CB


CB

Sorry, this yearwas Astana, not Festina. They had the doping scandal a couple of years ago....

Yep, I agree. And I think your point about Astana being PISSED becaused their team basically had no choice but to withdraw from the tour is valid. It's interesting to note the Jonathan Vaughters Slipstream team is taking the drug free route; hopefully teams like that will succeed and never once be tarnished by dopping positives in competition.

I think the sport will begin to suffer badly when corporate sponsorship no longer elects to sponsor teams at the elite level. It should be a huge warning indicator, an idiot light going off, that Discovery is having a difficult time finding a new sponsor. I mean, Lance, Johan, et. al. - if they can't find a sponsor, who can?

Astana made it to stage 15 this year. Last year they were excluded from the tour the day before the start due to its implications in Operation Puerto. I'm wondering, what culpability does the corporate sponsor have? Should they require more from the team management in terms of monitoring and testing their riders? Should be a condition of their sponsorship of the team?

You know, I was just thinking. If you are the company, and you are stupid enough to sponsor a team implicated in doping two years in a row, and you continue to do it after that, than the simple association to a horrible situation will likely be penalty enough. That just makes Astana look bad.

If you were to fine the sponsoring company too, you almost guarantee that no one will sponsor, because no corporation wants an unknown, open ended liability. They want to be able, for the sake fo the bean counters, to say that they are only on the line for the contracted amount which they wrote the check for at the beginning of the season.

Fellas, relax. This is not the first professional sport to go through doping scandals. If anything, all this media attention is bringing cycling into the public eye in this country which will only help the sport in the long run. Is there anywhere on earth where athletes are paid more money than the US? Baseball viewership was on the slide and out of nowhere comes the steroid issue, like it just got invented or something! Conspiracy theorists must be going nuts right now!!--"let's create a drug scandal in cycling so more American sports fanatics will pay attention to cycling and all the big time sponsors will jump on the band wagon!" I love sports and now I love the Tour!! But I'll miss Vino and all his stitches!

I was testing out the new forum.....

Yesterday's headlines in the sporting news:

- Michael Vick told to stay away from Training camp by the NFL
- NBA referee is being ordered to surrender to authorities in connection with allegations that he was gambling on games he was refereeing
- Team Astana abandons the tour in the wake of reports that their team leader, Alexander Vinokourov tested positive for blood doping
- Barry Bonds, in pursuit of Hank Aaron's home run record, is again accused by former BALCO officials of doping.

Great day for sports, but keeping it in perspective - seems to be a sign of the times.

Good point.

CB

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/other_s ... 915683.stm

This time Cristian Moreni - he admitted his guilt

You can see my comments about Astana in the Tora, Tora, Tora, feed. In regards to Discovery and companies sponsoring teams...who is going to sponsor a team where management made such a cavalier decision to higher three dopers kicked out of last year's Tour, even if one of them is now in 2nd place of the Tour?

Corporations are much more risk adverse, at least those based in the US. I guess that is why Bruyneel was off in China before the Tour negotiating a deal.

Sounds like Slipstream will be America's team next year anyways. I'm very impressed by Vaughter's quotes. Hopefully, he'll serve as a bridge to a cleaner sport along with Stapleton from T-Mobile. But doping will always exist....in the 10 years since the Festina affair, only one thing has changed. French riders got slower. After the recent events, only one thing will change....French and German riders will be slower.

That is my synical view right now anyways.

News Flash:

http://www.velonews.com/tour2007/detail ... 944.0.html

Rasmussen pulled from the Tour by his own team......

Apparently when he claimed to have been in Mexico training, he was having a conversation with a journalist in Italy.